Post by Myles on Mar 7, 2012 20:23:29 GMT -5
*cracks knuckles* Let's get down to business.
First things first, let's reach a point of agreement. For the most part, it is maintained that Thedas is analogous to medieval Europe, certain nations borrowing more heavily from real world analogies than others. Now, while this point of comparison is vital, we also remember that Thedas is high/dark fantasy, it's vastly different from any real world location, at any point in history. In Thedas, there are dragons, in medieval Europe, there were no dragons, etc. etc. By keeping this in mind, we remember not to limit ourselves too much.
Now, to the matter of POPULATION
With its current scientific and social advances, we can expect Thedas population to mirror the population of m,Europe in a variety of ways. First, while Europe dealt with the Black Plague (one of the major population controlling factors), Thedas has endured the Blights, which have offered a similar control mechanism. In addition with this, if we consider 'Ancient' in the Thedoisan calendar to mimic our own BCE time period, then we can safely say that 9:30 Dragon, translates to 900-1000 AD.
With that in mind, visit this site: www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pop-in-eur.asp
While the chart provided is far from 100% accurate, it's an incalculably valuable resource for any story with a medieval setting. Note, that the total population of Europe in the Year 1000 AD is approximately 40 MILLION SOULS. It becomes quite obvious, that we need to severely tweak some numbers.
Of course, we must also split this 40 million person total among four races. 1st Humans, 2nd Elves, 3rd/4th tied between Dwarves and Qunari (read kossith, as the majority of Qunari are kossith)
To this end, I posit the existences of 20 million humans, they're the dominant race, they have the fastest birthrate and the control of the majority of Thedas' resources.
10 million elves (7 million city elves, 3 million dalish)- A race in obvious decline. Although they were the original inhabitants of Thedas, the elves have been ravaged by both disease and warfare, perhaps not to the extent of the Indigenous American populations during the age of European Colonialism, but severe nonetheless. I should be suspected that the elves were at one point, more numerous than the humans. However, with the advent of disease, the destruction of Arlathan, and several thousand years of oppression, their numbers have obviously dropped. Note Merril's concerns about a relationship with Hawke, and the presence of arranged marriages in the alienages.
5 million dwarves (1.5 mil in Orzammar, 1.5 mil in Kal-Sharok, 2 mil surface) - The dwarven civilization was decimated by the Blights, and has still been keep from proper expansion by the ever present threat of Darkspawn in the Deep Roads. Only two great cities remain. The surface population of dwarfs grow at a faster rate than the cities, due to a less rigid caste system, and the reduced threat of darkspawn. Note, that this would be 2 million dwarfs spread throughout the WHOLE of Thedas, they'd have relatively small populations once broken down into nations.
4-6 million kossith (4 million Qunari-affiliated, 1 million Tal-Vashoth/unaffliated) - The Kossith are an interesting case, they've only been in Thedas proper for about 500 years, and began as a naval invading force. This means that their initial numbers couldn't have been much over a million strong (and even then, that'd be one hell of an armada.) However, Par Vollen is one of the most tropical locales in Thedas, and one of the warmest. Couple that with a strictly planned and orchestrated Qunari breeding program, and you've got one of the fastest growing populations in Thedas. Of course, the vast bulk of those numbers is restricted to Par Vollen and Seheron (remember, the Kossith were ousted from Northern Rivain, only their converts and perhaps a few actual Kossith remained behind).
Now, with these figures in mind, let's make a revised Population list:
Orlaisan Population: Settled in a generally temperate region with both the Hearlands and the Dales acting as extremely fertile bread baskets, Orlais no doubt has one of the largest human populations in Thedas. It should also have the largest elven population outside of Tevinter, considering the dissolution of the Dales.
Human: 4.5 million
Elven: 1.5 million (1.4 city elves/100,000 Dalish migrants)
Dwarven: 300,000 (surface dwarves)
Kossith: 200,000 (unaffiliated)
Total: 6.5 million +
Ferelden Population: Located in the far south of Thedas, its climate is no doubt the coldest. However, the Bannorn is still a very fruitful region, and freehold farming is commonplace, so a relatively healthy population is expected. Add into this equation the untold hordes of Chasind and Avvar tribes throughout the Kocari wilds, and you could have a population that rivals Orlais. The presence of Orzammar within Ferelden's borders would also contribute significantly to the surface dwarf population (it would be there first stop after exile, forced or self-imposed.) The nearness of the Dales beyond the Frostback mountains, also lends itself to a substantial elven population, with a sizable Dalish presence in the Brecillian Forest. This far from Par Vollen, however, Kossith are relatively few in number.
Human: 1.75 million
Elven: 1.2 million (800,000 city elves, 600,000 Dalish)
Dwarven: 350,000 (surface dwarves)
Kossith: 70,000 (unaffiliated)
Total: 3.45 million +
Orzammar Population: Subterranean and cramped, yet still the greatest city of the dwarfs even before the advent of the Blight, Orzammar remains one of the cradles of Dwarven civilization, and seems to be a city on a massive scale. Some human and elven presence is expected, as a new Circle of Magi was built in Orzammar and trade with the surface has flourished.
Human: 100,000
Elven: ?
Dwarven: 1.5 million
Kossith: ?
Total: 1.6 million +
The Free Marches Population: Located north of Ferelden in what is certainly a much more temperate zone, The Free Marches are more a collection of city states than anything resembling a true nation. However, the benefits of the extensive river and flood plain system provided by the massive Minanter river cannot be underestimated. The melting pot of Thedas, so to speak, where north bleeds into south, the population of the Free Marches is no doubt diverse and dense.
Human: 2.5 million
Elven: 1 million (800,000 city/200,000 Dalish)
Dwarven: 450,000 (surface)
Kossith: 200,000 (unaffiliated/Tal-Vashoth)
Total: 4.1 million +
Neverra Population: Caught between the Blighted Silent Plains and the Fields of Ghislain, Nevarra may have some small food crisis on its hands. However, they also benefit from the tail end of the Minanter river system, which should alleviate that problem somewhat. Combine that with resources from the Waking Sea, and Nevarra may very well be thriving. Regardless of this, however, it should be noted that Nevarra was once a part of the Free Marches. At its core, it's still a city-state with tributary lands. The population is no doubt dense within the capital of Cumberland, but relatively sparse throughout the countryside. Nevarra is no doubt one of the smallest of the nations of Thedas in terms of sheer population.
Human: 2.25 million
Elven: 800,000 (600,000 city/200,000 Dalish)
Dwarven: 200,000 (surface)
Kossith: 100,000 (unaffiliated)
Total: 3.35 million +
Antiva Population: While primarily known for its deserts and arid climate, The wealth of resources located within the Weyrs and along Antiva's substantial river system should not be underestimated.
Human: 1.25 million
Elven: 750,000 (500,000 city/250,000 Dalish)
Dwarven: 70,000
Kossith: 30,000 (unaffiliated)
Total: 2.1 million +
Rivain Population: A definite tropic/subtropic climate, Rivain is no doubt one of the warmest places on mainland Thedas, leading to a solid agricultural framework augmented by produce from the surrounding ocean and the Rialto Bay. Note the high Dalish presence, and note that Rivain boasts the only semi-permanent Dalish setllement.
Human: 1.75 million
Elven: 1.25 million (250,000 city/1 million Dalish)
Dwarven: ?
Kossith: 250,000 (200,000 Qunari/50,000 Tal-Vashoth or unaffiliated)
Total: 3.3 million +
Anderfels Population: Dry, stark, and blighted, the rugged steppes of the Anderfels have a difficult time supporting a large population. Noted as one of the poorest nations in Thedas due to a lack of natural resources, note that it is also most likely one of the most sparsely populated, the land too poor to sustain larger cities and villages with any sort of ease. Larger populations no doubt exist around hubs of trade.
Human: 1 million
Elven: 250,000 (200,000 city/50,000 Dalish)
Dwarven: ?
Kossith: ?
Total: 1.25 million +
The Tevinter Imperium Population: The oldest human nation in Thedas boasts a sizable population, supported by an extensive series of lakes and a long standing system of infrastructure. Couple this with a tropical climate, and it’s clear that the population of this aging giant is dense. Note that Tevinter also has the largest population of elves, due in part to the fact that while elves are allowed to sell themselves into slavery, they claim a markedly higher standard of living compared to their alienage counterparts, participating in even the highest echelons of government.
Human: 3.5 million
Elven: 2.5 million
Dwarven: 200,000
Kossith: 200,000
Total: 6.4 million +
Seheron: The verdant, jungle island of Seheron is rich with food and resources, and is one of the most hotly contested lands in all of Thedas, locked in a perpetual state of warfare between the Qunari and the Imperium. Currently, I would suspect that each great empire holds fifty percent of the island’s total territory.
Human: 1.5 million
Elven: 750,000
Dwarven: ?
Kossith: 500,000 (450,000 Qunari/50,000 Tal-Vashoth)
Total: 2.75 million +
Par Vollen Population: Covered in dense jungle and mystery just as thick, little is actually known about Par Vollen, including its total landmass. The Qunari have made a home for themselves upon the island, and no force in heaven or on earth seems equipped to oust them. The numbers of other races in Par Vollen are difficult to determine without access to Tamassran records.
Human: ?
Elven: ?
Dwarven: ?
Kossith: 4 million (Qunari)
Fex: ?
Total: 4 million +
Kal-Sharok: Only recently rediscovered, very little is known about this other great Dwarven city, merely that it boasts a population similar to Orzammar.
Human: ?
Elven: ?
Dwarven: 1.5 million
Kossith: ?
Total: 1.5 million +
GRAND TOTAL POPULATION OF THEDAS: 40,300,000
By Race-
Human: 20,100,000
Elves: 10,250,000
City- 7,850,000
Dalish- 2,400,000
Dwarves: 4,570,000
Traditional: 3,000,000
Surface; 1,570,000
Kossith: 5,560,000
Qunari: 4,650,000
Tal-Vashoth/Unaffiliated: 910,000
A note on Mages and Templars:
The number of Mages in Thedas is extremely difficult to determine. While magic does seem to run in families, it cannot be solely a genetic attribute as it manifests across species. Such a mutation is impossible. The simplest bet, is to say that 1 percent of the population of Thedas is born with magical talent, making that some 400,000 individuals. A third of that number reside in Tevinter, who not only monitor their own populace for magical attribute, but actively smuggle apostates into their borders. The remaining 270,000 mages or so would be scattered across Thedas in the Circles for the most part. If we use the relative Templar to Mage ratio witnessed in Kinloch Hold during the events of Dragon Age: Origins, we see a 2:1 split between mage and Templar. Projected over a larger scale, this would mean a grand total of 200,000 or so Templars spread across Thedas. Their essentially a police force, not a population, thus the lower numbers. However, it should be noted that the Templars can demand levies from local forces to supplement their numbers should the need arise. They feel this is their right. Whether it truthfully is or not, is another matter entirely.
In closing, you can see that the general thrust of these numbers is LARGER. Far too often, fantasy writer pin themselves into a whole by severely underestimating the population of a large landmass in the time period. We must think in terms of millions, not hundreds of thousands. Likewise, we cannot expect a game to actively portray these millions, instead providing us a framework upon which we can build. I hope this has been helpful. At the end of the day, all of these are mere suggestions backed with what facts I can scrounge and what anthropological forecasts I can make. Feel free to use it at your discretion.
Thoughts? Comments? Questions? Concerns?
Until next time, my dear freaky darlings,
Sevens
First things first, let's reach a point of agreement. For the most part, it is maintained that Thedas is analogous to medieval Europe, certain nations borrowing more heavily from real world analogies than others. Now, while this point of comparison is vital, we also remember that Thedas is high/dark fantasy, it's vastly different from any real world location, at any point in history. In Thedas, there are dragons, in medieval Europe, there were no dragons, etc. etc. By keeping this in mind, we remember not to limit ourselves too much.
Now, to the matter of POPULATION
With its current scientific and social advances, we can expect Thedas population to mirror the population of m,Europe in a variety of ways. First, while Europe dealt with the Black Plague (one of the major population controlling factors), Thedas has endured the Blights, which have offered a similar control mechanism. In addition with this, if we consider 'Ancient' in the Thedoisan calendar to mimic our own BCE time period, then we can safely say that 9:30 Dragon, translates to 900-1000 AD.
With that in mind, visit this site: www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pop-in-eur.asp
While the chart provided is far from 100% accurate, it's an incalculably valuable resource for any story with a medieval setting. Note, that the total population of Europe in the Year 1000 AD is approximately 40 MILLION SOULS. It becomes quite obvious, that we need to severely tweak some numbers.
Of course, we must also split this 40 million person total among four races. 1st Humans, 2nd Elves, 3rd/4th tied between Dwarves and Qunari (read kossith, as the majority of Qunari are kossith)
To this end, I posit the existences of 20 million humans, they're the dominant race, they have the fastest birthrate and the control of the majority of Thedas' resources.
10 million elves (7 million city elves, 3 million dalish)- A race in obvious decline. Although they were the original inhabitants of Thedas, the elves have been ravaged by both disease and warfare, perhaps not to the extent of the Indigenous American populations during the age of European Colonialism, but severe nonetheless. I should be suspected that the elves were at one point, more numerous than the humans. However, with the advent of disease, the destruction of Arlathan, and several thousand years of oppression, their numbers have obviously dropped. Note Merril's concerns about a relationship with Hawke, and the presence of arranged marriages in the alienages.
5 million dwarves (1.5 mil in Orzammar, 1.5 mil in Kal-Sharok, 2 mil surface) - The dwarven civilization was decimated by the Blights, and has still been keep from proper expansion by the ever present threat of Darkspawn in the Deep Roads. Only two great cities remain. The surface population of dwarfs grow at a faster rate than the cities, due to a less rigid caste system, and the reduced threat of darkspawn. Note, that this would be 2 million dwarfs spread throughout the WHOLE of Thedas, they'd have relatively small populations once broken down into nations.
4-6 million kossith (4 million Qunari-affiliated, 1 million Tal-Vashoth/unaffliated) - The Kossith are an interesting case, they've only been in Thedas proper for about 500 years, and began as a naval invading force. This means that their initial numbers couldn't have been much over a million strong (and even then, that'd be one hell of an armada.) However, Par Vollen is one of the most tropical locales in Thedas, and one of the warmest. Couple that with a strictly planned and orchestrated Qunari breeding program, and you've got one of the fastest growing populations in Thedas. Of course, the vast bulk of those numbers is restricted to Par Vollen and Seheron (remember, the Kossith were ousted from Northern Rivain, only their converts and perhaps a few actual Kossith remained behind).
Now, with these figures in mind, let's make a revised Population list:
Orlaisan Population: Settled in a generally temperate region with both the Hearlands and the Dales acting as extremely fertile bread baskets, Orlais no doubt has one of the largest human populations in Thedas. It should also have the largest elven population outside of Tevinter, considering the dissolution of the Dales.
Human: 4.5 million
Elven: 1.5 million (1.4 city elves/100,000 Dalish migrants)
Dwarven: 300,000 (surface dwarves)
Kossith: 200,000 (unaffiliated)
Total: 6.5 million +
Ferelden Population: Located in the far south of Thedas, its climate is no doubt the coldest. However, the Bannorn is still a very fruitful region, and freehold farming is commonplace, so a relatively healthy population is expected. Add into this equation the untold hordes of Chasind and Avvar tribes throughout the Kocari wilds, and you could have a population that rivals Orlais. The presence of Orzammar within Ferelden's borders would also contribute significantly to the surface dwarf population (it would be there first stop after exile, forced or self-imposed.) The nearness of the Dales beyond the Frostback mountains, also lends itself to a substantial elven population, with a sizable Dalish presence in the Brecillian Forest. This far from Par Vollen, however, Kossith are relatively few in number.
Human: 1.75 million
Elven: 1.2 million (800,000 city elves, 600,000 Dalish)
Dwarven: 350,000 (surface dwarves)
Kossith: 70,000 (unaffiliated)
Total: 3.45 million +
Orzammar Population: Subterranean and cramped, yet still the greatest city of the dwarfs even before the advent of the Blight, Orzammar remains one of the cradles of Dwarven civilization, and seems to be a city on a massive scale. Some human and elven presence is expected, as a new Circle of Magi was built in Orzammar and trade with the surface has flourished.
Human: 100,000
Elven: ?
Dwarven: 1.5 million
Kossith: ?
Total: 1.6 million +
The Free Marches Population: Located north of Ferelden in what is certainly a much more temperate zone, The Free Marches are more a collection of city states than anything resembling a true nation. However, the benefits of the extensive river and flood plain system provided by the massive Minanter river cannot be underestimated. The melting pot of Thedas, so to speak, where north bleeds into south, the population of the Free Marches is no doubt diverse and dense.
Human: 2.5 million
Elven: 1 million (800,000 city/200,000 Dalish)
Dwarven: 450,000 (surface)
Kossith: 200,000 (unaffiliated/Tal-Vashoth)
Total: 4.1 million +
Neverra Population: Caught between the Blighted Silent Plains and the Fields of Ghislain, Nevarra may have some small food crisis on its hands. However, they also benefit from the tail end of the Minanter river system, which should alleviate that problem somewhat. Combine that with resources from the Waking Sea, and Nevarra may very well be thriving. Regardless of this, however, it should be noted that Nevarra was once a part of the Free Marches. At its core, it's still a city-state with tributary lands. The population is no doubt dense within the capital of Cumberland, but relatively sparse throughout the countryside. Nevarra is no doubt one of the smallest of the nations of Thedas in terms of sheer population.
Human: 2.25 million
Elven: 800,000 (600,000 city/200,000 Dalish)
Dwarven: 200,000 (surface)
Kossith: 100,000 (unaffiliated)
Total: 3.35 million +
Antiva Population: While primarily known for its deserts and arid climate, The wealth of resources located within the Weyrs and along Antiva's substantial river system should not be underestimated.
Human: 1.25 million
Elven: 750,000 (500,000 city/250,000 Dalish)
Dwarven: 70,000
Kossith: 30,000 (unaffiliated)
Total: 2.1 million +
Rivain Population: A definite tropic/subtropic climate, Rivain is no doubt one of the warmest places on mainland Thedas, leading to a solid agricultural framework augmented by produce from the surrounding ocean and the Rialto Bay. Note the high Dalish presence, and note that Rivain boasts the only semi-permanent Dalish setllement.
Human: 1.75 million
Elven: 1.25 million (250,000 city/1 million Dalish)
Dwarven: ?
Kossith: 250,000 (200,000 Qunari/50,000 Tal-Vashoth or unaffiliated)
Total: 3.3 million +
Anderfels Population: Dry, stark, and blighted, the rugged steppes of the Anderfels have a difficult time supporting a large population. Noted as one of the poorest nations in Thedas due to a lack of natural resources, note that it is also most likely one of the most sparsely populated, the land too poor to sustain larger cities and villages with any sort of ease. Larger populations no doubt exist around hubs of trade.
Human: 1 million
Elven: 250,000 (200,000 city/50,000 Dalish)
Dwarven: ?
Kossith: ?
Total: 1.25 million +
The Tevinter Imperium Population: The oldest human nation in Thedas boasts a sizable population, supported by an extensive series of lakes and a long standing system of infrastructure. Couple this with a tropical climate, and it’s clear that the population of this aging giant is dense. Note that Tevinter also has the largest population of elves, due in part to the fact that while elves are allowed to sell themselves into slavery, they claim a markedly higher standard of living compared to their alienage counterparts, participating in even the highest echelons of government.
Human: 3.5 million
Elven: 2.5 million
Dwarven: 200,000
Kossith: 200,000
Total: 6.4 million +
Seheron: The verdant, jungle island of Seheron is rich with food and resources, and is one of the most hotly contested lands in all of Thedas, locked in a perpetual state of warfare between the Qunari and the Imperium. Currently, I would suspect that each great empire holds fifty percent of the island’s total territory.
Human: 1.5 million
Elven: 750,000
Dwarven: ?
Kossith: 500,000 (450,000 Qunari/50,000 Tal-Vashoth)
Total: 2.75 million +
Par Vollen Population: Covered in dense jungle and mystery just as thick, little is actually known about Par Vollen, including its total landmass. The Qunari have made a home for themselves upon the island, and no force in heaven or on earth seems equipped to oust them. The numbers of other races in Par Vollen are difficult to determine without access to Tamassran records.
Human: ?
Elven: ?
Dwarven: ?
Kossith: 4 million (Qunari)
Fex: ?
Total: 4 million +
Kal-Sharok: Only recently rediscovered, very little is known about this other great Dwarven city, merely that it boasts a population similar to Orzammar.
Human: ?
Elven: ?
Dwarven: 1.5 million
Kossith: ?
Total: 1.5 million +
GRAND TOTAL POPULATION OF THEDAS: 40,300,000
By Race-
Human: 20,100,000
Elves: 10,250,000
City- 7,850,000
Dalish- 2,400,000
Dwarves: 4,570,000
Traditional: 3,000,000
Surface; 1,570,000
Kossith: 5,560,000
Qunari: 4,650,000
Tal-Vashoth/Unaffiliated: 910,000
A note on Mages and Templars:
The number of Mages in Thedas is extremely difficult to determine. While magic does seem to run in families, it cannot be solely a genetic attribute as it manifests across species. Such a mutation is impossible. The simplest bet, is to say that 1 percent of the population of Thedas is born with magical talent, making that some 400,000 individuals. A third of that number reside in Tevinter, who not only monitor their own populace for magical attribute, but actively smuggle apostates into their borders. The remaining 270,000 mages or so would be scattered across Thedas in the Circles for the most part. If we use the relative Templar to Mage ratio witnessed in Kinloch Hold during the events of Dragon Age: Origins, we see a 2:1 split between mage and Templar. Projected over a larger scale, this would mean a grand total of 200,000 or so Templars spread across Thedas. Their essentially a police force, not a population, thus the lower numbers. However, it should be noted that the Templars can demand levies from local forces to supplement their numbers should the need arise. They feel this is their right. Whether it truthfully is or not, is another matter entirely.
In closing, you can see that the general thrust of these numbers is LARGER. Far too often, fantasy writer pin themselves into a whole by severely underestimating the population of a large landmass in the time period. We must think in terms of millions, not hundreds of thousands. Likewise, we cannot expect a game to actively portray these millions, instead providing us a framework upon which we can build. I hope this has been helpful. At the end of the day, all of these are mere suggestions backed with what facts I can scrounge and what anthropological forecasts I can make. Feel free to use it at your discretion.
Thoughts? Comments? Questions? Concerns?
Until next time, my dear freaky darlings,
Sevens
