Post by The Maker on Aug 13, 2012 14:57:35 GMT -5
Theory on Flemeth
Having read deep into the Dragon Age lore I came across something I never thought of and I am going to explain it in detail below. There are many theories about Flemeth, about what or who she is…and well I cannot say for certain, but I may have discovered who Flemeth exactly is.
If you have played the DLC Witch Hunt, where your Warden goes after to search for Morrigan, you encounter her when she is about to step into the Eluvian mirror with the God Child, and there she explains that Flemeth is not a mage, abomination nor human. If you are curious about this, you can look this up in the video beneath.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRDEHUd9HUY
Now comes the question, if she is none of those things, then what is she? I began searching for clues, but perhaps the best clue was in that video. “It is Flemeth you should be aware of, not me (Morrigan), hunt her, if you hunt anyone.” If you take this literally, like I did, then let us take a look at Flemeth`s story, where is she from, what legends is there about her? According to Dragon Age there are many legends about her, which all tells a similar story.
In Dragon Age: Origins we hear that Morrigan and Leliana tell of Flemeth, but have different versions. Let`s take a look at it:
Leliana`s story:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHPOpakDSM0
“Flemeth`s beauty was known throughout the land. She had hair like unto a moonless night, skin as pale as winter`s first snow and eyes as beautiful and perilous as the sea.
When she came of age, she came to attention of the Lord of Highever, Conobar, and he took her for his wife. Conobar soon learned that his young bride had the gift of magic. He kept this a secret; for he feared that she would be taken from him.
Flemeth stayed with Conobar for some years, and with his blessing, she practiced her art. And then one day a poet named Osen came to the castle. Flemeth was captivated by Osen`s voice, and he by her beauty, and they fell in love. Flemeth longed to be with her true love and she and Osen fled from Conobar`s lands, seeking refuge in the Korcari Wilds with the Chasind tribes.
They lived there happily, for many a year, till the day Flemeth received news that Conobar was dying and longed to see her face one last time. Flemeth`s heart swelled with pity for the man who once was her husband, and begged Osen to return to Conobar`s side with her. But when Flemeth and Osen entered Highever, they were captured by Conobar`s men and Osen was slain in front of Flemeth`s eyes.
Flemeth was imprisoned in the highest tower of the castle, there to await Conobar`s judgment on her. Distraught the loss of her love, Flemeth plotted revenge against her husband. She summoned a Fade demon, intending for it to wreak vengeance on Conobar, but her spell went awry. The demon possessed Flemeth, turning her into an abomination. The halls of the castle ran red with blood as Flemeth slaughtered Conobar and all his men. The last of Flemeth`s humanity melted away and at dawn, she stole back to the Wilds to plot and scheme for a hundred years.
They say she took to her side many Chasind men, and with their help begat her daughter-witches who even known prowl the dark places of the Korcari Wilds.”
Morrigan`s story:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qYqvLY_ajs
“As the tale is song by the bards, there was a time Flemeth was young and beautiful. A fair lass in the land of Barbarian men, the desire of any who saw her. Many centuries before this land was even named Ferelden.
The tale say Flemeth fell in love with Osen the bard, and fled the castle of her husband, the dread Lord Conobar, and that he swore vengeance for her infidelity.
In truth, my mother claims it was Osen who was her husband and Conobar the jealous lord who looked on from afar. Lord Conobar approached young Osen and offered him wealth and power in exchange for his lovely wife, and Osen agreed.
The life of a bard is a poor one, and love fades in the wake of hunger. It was Flemeth who suggested the arrangement. All would have been well had Lord Conobar kept his end of the bargain. But he was a foul man with coin he did not possess. Osen was led off to a field and slain, left for dead. Flemeth spoke to the spirits and learned of the deed, and swore revenge. Spirits first, and it was they who slew Conobar. Flemeth did not turn to the demons until…much later.
Lord Conobar`s allies chased Flemeth, you see. Chased her to the wilds and there she hid. There she found the demon and he made her strong.
The legends also speak of the great hero Cormac, he who defeated Flemeth and her great army when she invaded the lowlands centuries later. All lies.
The truth about the matter is that there was never an invasion. As Flemeth tells it the Chasind never raised an army under her banner and she never fought with any warrior named Cormac. Cormac led a brutal civil war against his own people, and later claimed it was to vanquish evil that had taken root amongst the lords. Thus he was hailed a hero.
Flemeth was only attached to the legend much later. Perhaps that was due to the war with the Chasind that eventually came, but mother knows not how it began. I do not believe that Flemeth claims. Often it seems bitterness has colored her memories. But on a whole? I believe this tale, if not all. The demon within her has transformed her into…something else. An abomination, perhaps some say? I know not. I only know my mother is clever. And she is part of the Wilds as it is part of her, but she is no mortal, she bleeds. A blade in her heart would kill her like any other, were it lucky enough to find her.
The stories tell of many witches of the wilds, after all. Not just the one. And these tales existed long before I did. Flemeth refuses to speak of other daughters, if they existed. So should I believe I am the first? I doubt that, too. The Chasind tell about a falling out between Flemeth and her `daughters`. They say that one day she hunted them all through the wilds and ate their hearts. It may be true. I have never seen another witch or heard of one. Perhaps one day Flemeth may eat my heart, as well.
There are many things in this world and the next that you or I could ever hope to understand. What Flemeth is a mystery…I suspect even to her.”
Having heard and read both stories about her, it is obvious that there is something strange with these tales. Leliana`s version sounds like a version of Romeo and Juliet, which does not really sound like Flemeth, then when you hear Morrigan`s story it sounds a bit more like her, yet it seems to be full of lies with some parts of truth. Also both tales mention Flemeth may be an abomination in some way, although Morrigan much later in Dragon Age says she is not. Now if we rather look at the persons who tell the story, what does that tell us? Which of them seem to know the truth?
Apparently Leliana was told this tale by her mother and it may be something that have passed on through generations, from people to people, and by that we can assume that the story have changed in its own way, but we also know that Leliana is a skilled bard and her job is to know such stories.
Then there is Morrigan, she was told this directly from Flemeth herself, who may have lied on certain points to cover up the truth, and Morrigan even says: “I believe this tale, if not all.” This may seem to refer to Flemeth`s story about Cormac and the Chasind invasion, but it also seems to relate to all the rest. She believes that certain tale is correct, doubting the rest is.
However what Morrigan says next is even more interesting: “The demon within her has transformed her into…something else. An abomination, perhaps some say? I know not. I only know my mother is clever. And she is part of the Wilds as it is part of her, but she is no mortal, she bleeds. A blade in her heart would kill her like any other, were it lucky enough to find her.” The abomination part does not fit with what she says in the DLC, but she does not fully claim it is an abomination either, does she? It may be something else, which makes it more looking like the truth. And what she says about killing her, if one finds her, seems to fit as well…since we also know Flemeth have cheated her ways past death many times, by using fragments of her to live further elsewhere.
So who of them should we go for? My opinion is that neither is fully trustworthy, but both include parts of the truth. If we look closer at what is similar, we find these things:
- Flemeth starts out as this beautiful woman who many desires in the land of barbarian men, before the land was even named Ferelden.
- She appears to have lived in Highever and consulted to magic.
- The stories tell of Osen and Conobar, both having different roles in each different tale.
- No matter how the story is told, both tell Osen was killed, either on a field or when entering Highever and that Flemeth in rage killed Conobar and his men with the aid of spirits/demons.
- The stories tell that Flemeth eventually fled to the Wilds, where she lived with the Chasind and begat her daughter-witches.
Leliana`s story does not tell much of what happened further, but what Morrigan adds on is fascinating. She tells about Cormac and Flemeth, who was said to have fought against each other when Flemeth invaded the lowlands, this is according to Morrigan all lies. She claims Flemeth was first involved in this legend long after when the Chasind did invade, but that Flemeth herself claims not to know the reason why, even though she have lived in the Korcari Wilds her long life as a Witch.
My estimated opinion so far is that Flemeth may once have been human, but changed after a while, perhaps like Anders and Wynne? Although in behavior she seems a lot different, and she can even transform herself to other animals, as well a dragon. This may be because she is strong in her power and is a shapeshifter, but having the ability to change into a Dragon is not common.
Now, if we look at the word Dragon…we know that by playing DA:O a dragon which guards the Urn of the Sacred Ashes is by the mountain folk said to be Andraste herself. (The same people who were said to have invaded the lowlands with Flemeth?) By killing the dragon in the Frostback Mountains we discover quickly that it is not Andraste, and that the tale of the people may be gibberish, if not it may be that its origin is true and that another dragon who roamed its landscape was once Flemeth?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7FDqmregJU
www.youtube.com/watch?v=a25S_PLnNwE
Switching the topic from Flemeth to Andraste, we see there are many similarities. Below you`ll find what DA wiki says about Andraste: the Bride of the Maker: dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Andraste:_Bride_of_the_Maker
There was once a tiny fishing village on the Waking Sea that was set upon by the Tevinter Imperium, which enslaved the villagers to be sold in the markets of Minrathous, leaving behind only the old and the infirm. One of the captives was the child Andraste.
She was raised in slavery in a foreign land. She escaped, and then made the long and treacherous journey back to her homeland alone. She rose from nothing to be the wife of an Alamarri warlord.
Each day she sang to the gods, asking them to help her people who remained slaves in Tevinter. The false gods of the mountains and the winds did not answer her, but the true god did.
The Maker spoke. He showed her all the works of His hands: the Fade, the world, and all the creatures therein. He showed her how men had forgotten Him, lavishing devotion upon mute idols and demons, and how He had left them to their fate. But her voice had reached Him, and so captivated Him that He offered her a place at His side, that she might rule all of creation.
But Andraste would not forsake her people.
She begged the Maker to return, to save His children from the cruelty of the Imperium. Reluctantly, the Maker agreed to give man another chance.
Andraste went back to her husband, Maferath, and told him all that the Maker had revealed to her. Together, they rallied the Alamarri and marched forth against the mage-lords of the Imperium, and the Maker was with them.
The Maker's sword was creation itself: fire and flood, famine and earthquake. Everywhere they went, Andraste sang to the people of the Maker, and they heard her. The ranks of Andraste's followers grew until they were a vast tide washing over the Imperium. And when Maferath saw that the people loved Andraste and not him, a worm grew within his heart, gnawing upon it.
At last, the armies of Andraste and Maferath stood before the very gates of Minrathous, but Andraste was not with them.
For Maferath had schemed in secret to hand Andraste over to the Tevinter. For this, the archon would give Maferath all the lands to the south of the Waking Sea.
And so, before all the armies of the Alamarri and of Tevinter, Andraste was tied to a stake and burned while her earthly husband turned his armies aside and did nothing, for his heart had been devoured. But as he watched the pyre, the archon softened. He took pity on Andraste, and drew his sword, and granted her the mercy of a quick death.
The Maker wept for His Beloved, cursed Maferath, cursed mankind for their betrayal, and turned once again from creation, taking only Andraste with him. And Our Lady sits still at his side, where she still urges Him to take pity on His children.
--From The Sermons of Justinia II.
Having seen this, and then by looking back at what we already have gone through, we see that these stories match. Let us take a look at how they do:
The story of Andraste tells she was once born in a fishing village in Ferelden, whose mother was Brona. She was then sold and made a slave in Minrathous. What comes next I find curious, and I quote: “She was raised in slavery in a foreign land. She escaped, and then made the long and treacherous journey back to her homeland alone. She rose from nothing to be the wife of an Alamarri warlord.”
Now the Alamarri are once said to be the ancestor barbarians who lived in Ferelden, and much like Flemeth`s story, who journeyed across the land fair and beautiful was married to lord, who supposedly lived in Highever, a northern city of Ferelden close to the Waking Sea.
Moving onward on Andraste`s story, we read further and discover this: “Each day she sang to the gods, asking them to help her people who remained slaves in Tevinter. The false gods of the mountains and the winds did not answer her, but the true god did.”
Similar the story of Leliana, who I quote: “Flemeth stayed with Conobar for some years, and with his blessing, she practiced her art.” And as Morrigan says later in her story: “Flemeth spoke to the spirits and learned of the deed, and swore revenge. Spirits first, and it was they who slew Conobar. Flemeth did not turn to the demons until…much later.” And then even further in Morrigan`s tale: “The demon within her has transformed her into…something else. An abomination, perhaps some say? I know not.” Does this, if Andraste is Flemeth, seem like Andraste is praying to the old gods for guidance, was she maybe possessed? We will return to this topic…
Then there is these similarities between the men, in Flemeth`s story we have Lord Conobar and Osen the bard, in Andraste`s story we have Maferath who seems to be a lord of the Alamarri and Archon Hessarian who is mentioned here: dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Archon_Hessarian
Just like the story about Flemeth, Andraste is also betrayed by her husband who gives her to the rival, to the Tevinters (especially the Archon). The story of Andraste tells: “And when Maferath saw that the people loved Andraste and not him, a worm grew within his heart, gnawing upon it. At last, the armies of Andraste and Maferath stood before the very gates of Minrathous, but Andraste was not with them. For Maferath had schemed in secret to hand Andraste over to the Tevinter. For this, the archon would give Maferath all the lands to the south of the Waking Sea.” Whereas the story from Morrigan`s tale tell: “In truth, my mother claims it was Osen who was her husband and Conobar the jealous lord who looked on from afar. Lord Conobar approached young Osen and offered him wealth and power in exchange for his lovely wife, and Osen agreed. The life of a bard is a poor one, and love fades in the wake of hunger. It was Flemeth who suggested the arrangement. All would have been well had Lord Conobar kept his end of the bargain.”
The story of Andraste ends with that she was killed at the stake in Tevinter, while Flemeth`s story ends with that she returned to the wilds. However what seems odd to me is that the Archon was said to have heard the Makers voice as she burned, and out of mercy gave her a quick death. When looking up what happened further with her remains, we know that her ashes were brought to the Frostback Mountains and by looking up information about this from the Dragon Age Wiki, we get to know this below:
After her death, her followers smuggled her remains away to the Fereldan Mountains. A temple was built around her ashes and for Ages a Guardian has watched over it. This temple commemorates her memory and prevents the unworthy from viewing her remains. Her remains stayed in the mountain, undisturbed for many years and eventually rumours began to spread that her ashes held curative properties.
Interestingly enough, there is a book called "The Search for the True Prophet", which is a gift for Wynne, that mentions the possibility that Andraste wasn't, in fact, the Maker's Chosen, but rather "just" an extraordinarily powerful mage. This would explain Andraste's insight on the dangers of magic, whereas most humans, unable or unwilling to separate good magic from evil, fear it all. The text of the book mentions that it has been saved from a fire at some point in time, suggesting that there has been fierce opposition to any depiction of Andraste that runs counter to official Chantry doctrine. This is also a possible explanation for the healing powers of her ashes.
dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Andraste
dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/The_Search_for_the_True_Prophet
Summery so far:
After reading what we got so far, the theory of Flemeth being Andraste grows stronger, but if we are to sum it up in a nice and clean version, I`ll try to give my best opinion on how it may have unfolded:
Andraste was born human in a Ferelden fishing village close to the coast of the Waking Sea, whose mother was named Brona. She was then taken as a child and sold to be a slave in the Tevinter Imperium, at its capital Minrathous. There she was raised and possibly learned how to deal with magic, where she gained friends, enemies and lovers. Perhaps she met a young Archon Hessarian, or an already grown man, and that he helped her escape, if she did not do it alone.
Once she returned to Ferelden as a fair and beautiful woman, she rose from nothing to be the wife of an Alamarri warlord. The warlord soon learned that his young bride had the gift of magic and with his blessing, she practiced her art.
Thus supposedly the Maker spoke to her. A powerful demon then may have lured her with the speech of the Maker`s deeds and the misdoings of men, and once she agreed, the demon possessed the woman. Soon after she went back to her husband and together they rallied the Alamarri and marched forth against the mage-lords of the Imperium.
Upon their journey they gained many followers and Andraste grew powerful, whereas her husband either grew jealous or learned the truth. Once their war reached the gates of the Tevinter capital, her husband gave the Archon his wife, gaining wealth and power of his own by being given the southern lands in return.
Andraste was thus burned at the stake by the orders of Archon Hessarian, whose wife eagerly pushed the sentence. While the woman was being burned at the stake, the Archon heard the voice of the Maker, the same which Andraste had heard and he scorned her suffering by killing her with his sword.
Thus the belief of Andraste sprung and the Archon became a believer, spreading the faith across the land, while the ashes of the burned prophet were carried to be guarded in the Frostback Mountains of Ferelden. There Andraste returned and the cult of Haven erupted, from there she traveled and sought refuge in the wild, taking the name Flemeth where she created a new origin for herself. Over time she grew more and more powerful and she begat with many men the witches of the wild.
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That ladies and gentlemen is how I think it may have happened, if a Chantry priest saw this I am sure the priest would have yelled: “Blasphemy” However seeing it like this makes a lot of sense to me, and hopefully to some of you as well. The reason to why I think a demon of sort may have possessed her should be obvious by now, although this does not entirely fit with what Morrigan claims in the DLC Witch Hunt. If a demon possessed Flemeth, she technically would have been an abomination, but not exactly if what possessed her was something else. What if she was possessed by a powerful old God? Who was once worshiped in ancient Tevinter in the form of a dragon, and who is said to have tricked the Magisters to usurp the heaven, only then to be betrayed and becoming the first of the darkspawn?
This is only the first part of a long mystery solving, and I have others thoughts which I will reveal later, concerning what kind of demon may possibly have possessed Flemeth aka Andraste.
